Welcome to another episode of the Self-Publishing Roundtable, the news and interview show, for indie authors, by indie authors.
This week we have not one. Not two. But three guests for you.
We are talking to three of the people behind the Writers Digest/Digital Book World 2014 survey, which has created a lot of discussion.
Tonight we will have on Phillip Sexton, publisher of Writer’s Digest and Dana Beth Weinberg who undertook the survey on their behalf. They are two of the people most instrumental in producing the survey.
In addition we will be joined by Journalist, Porter Anderson.
If you have any questions concerning the survey now’s the time to ask.
You can leave your questions in the comments section below, and we will discuss them live on the show.
The show will air live at 7PM PST/10PM EST tonight. It will also be recorded and available for later viewing.
Feel free to leave your questions and comments here. This is a live chat that we can see and will address during the show tonight.
We welcome discussion, but these comments are moderated.
Y’all ready for this? *Queue hockey musics*
Hi all. Looking forward to this show tonight. I have a feeling it’s going to be a great one!
First time ever I’m early!!!!… but I am at work so I will only be following live for about 5 minutes and then I will slowly fall behind. Oh well. Have a great show.
Evening all.
Darren Wearmouth G’evening, Darren!
xgranville Hello, sir!
Darren Wearmouth xgranville welcome sir
Darren Wearmouth xgranville Evening, gents!
Liam Kingman Welcome Liam
Howdy howdy howdy. Good to see everyone tonight =)
BuddyGott Darren WearmouthxgranvilleMost lovely of evenings to you alls.
BuddyGott xgranville Looking forward to the show, no hangout for me after, last time I got no sleep!
Darren Wearmouth BuddyGott xgranville haha
shroudbetween Good to see, in general!
Darren Wearmouth BuddyGottxgranville Understandably unacceptable.
We are just setting up our guests (3) so we are a few minutes behind. Wont be long guys.
xgranville shroudbetween Let me correct that: good to see ALMOST everyone tonight…
shroudbetween xgranville I get enough kicks from the Profile pictures. Seeing you all in full might be too much for this poor Canadian.
wasssup, bitches!!!!!!
What’s up yo?
5, 4, 3, 2, 1….
RemarkableReads Welcome Kevin
Carl Sinclair 0,-1,-2,-3,-4,-5
Carl Sinclair RemarkableReads Remarkable Kevin.
Let the tech issues begin.
Hi everyone!
crissymoss Spoilers!
melissadonovan Hello Melissa
Carl Sinclair RemarkableReads Carl Sinclair is a badass. That is all.
BuddyGott melissadonovanHey!
melissadonovan Left coast represent! Hi Melissa =)
shroudbetween melissadonovanYeah left coast in the house! That’s left not west right? hehee
shroudbetween melissadonovan My two favorite left coasters in one place! Let the awesomeness commence!
xgranville shroudbetweenI’m in Northern Maine, 12 miles from the border so I’m a poor Canadian at heart… Or something like that.
melissadonovan Greetings, salutations and Hey, there!
BuddyGott shroudbetweenmelissadonovanI’m trying to figure out if I know who shroudbetween is. Such an enigmatic handle!
Liam Kingman xgranvilleshroudbetween Frozen by Proxy.
melissadonovan BuddyGott shroudbetween He’s Charlie Sheen.
Liam Kingman xgranville shroudbetween As a US American, and other things such as, I find this acceptable.
BuddyGott melissadonovanshroudbetween Rich Scottards.
melissadonovan BuddyGott shroudbetween Haha, Scott Richards on G+
shroudbetween melissadonovanBuddyGott Rich Scottards on F-
xgranville shroudbetween melissadonovan BuddyGott Only when I haven’t studied
shroudbetween melissadonovanBuddyGottOh, okay. Then I do know who you are.
melissadonovan shroudbetweenBuddyGott Rich Scottards is a big deal. He be mad pimping.
Bongo drum sound effects on SPRT.
melissadonovan We don’t want to leave you guys without extra music.
melissadonovan I don’t know about anyone else, but it’s making me dance!
melissadonovan It has that bouncy, Conga feel to it. I feel like I’m in that scene from Jim Carrey’s The Mask.
It sounds like a marble rolling around in a wooden box.
If anyone has a question, just chime in. That’s what I’m here for.
crissymoss And me
melissadonovan Or a cat playing with a toilet paper roll.
crissymoss And for BEING AWESOME!
Is there a link to the survey?
crissymoss And for BEING AW— DAMNIT BUDDY!
BuddyGott crissymoss well that goes without saying 😉
cause I’m so humble.
I’d also love to know how many writers on the survey have published more than one time during the past year.
shroudbetween crissymoss Sorry, Charlie Sheen!
billdowis I believe the actual survey is behind a pay wall
BuddyGott shroudbetweencrissymoss Looks like someone needs some Anger Management? That’s what a my two and a half man-friend told me, anyways.
thedavidwwright Get to this in a minute.
thedavidwwright Hi Dave! Weren’t you going to join the hangout?
crissymoss We cant see the questions or responses?
crissymoss thedavidwwright Awesomeness overload? We understand.
crissymoss thedavidwwright He couldn’t make it on.
billdowis crissymoss Nope, you chose the wrong pill. The answers come with the blue pill.
Carl Sinclair crissymoss thedavidwwright dislike
xgranville billdowis crissymoss P.S. to billdowis – your last tweet was awesome!
crissymoss Carl Sinclair thedavidwwright I liked that comment purely for the irony.
BuddyGott xgranvillebilldowiscrissymoss Ghostbusters for the win!
BuddyGott lol. It is on the TV right now!
Can we see a copy of the survey? Question wasn’t answered.
Beard of Zeus! Seen these prices? – http://www.abbottpress.com/Packages/PaperbackHardcover/Compare.aspx
thedavidwwright I’m going to come back to that.
That would be awesome (a copy of the survey).
Also, I think it’s essential to see the questions on a survey in order to assess the results. The way questions are worded is everything. You can ask the same question but use different language and get vastly different results. You see this in politics all the time.
Darren Wearmouth I think I blacked out for a quick second there…Wowza.
melissadonovan We’re trying.
Is there a link to the results of the survey? I forget the details.
Is there an article or something talking about the results of this survey. I am a bit lost and have not seen the discussions surrounding this survey.
No wonder they’re not making money! Most authors can’t make it on ONE BOOK A YEAR as an indie.
melissadonovan Most of the results are only available if you pay for the results, from my understanding.
Darren Wearmouth I taste pennies…
Darren Wearmouth Whoah!
melissadonovan I was told earlier it is behind a paywall. I’ll ask.
BuddyGott Darren Wearmouth I smell burnt toast!
xgranville BuddyGott Darren Wearmouth That’s because you’re burning your toast
shroudbetween xgranville BuddyGott I’m shocked, crazy stuff.
billdowis No, there are some blurbs, and a little info out, but the majority of it is behind a paywall. Most of the discussion has been about weather or not it’s a survey that should be trusted in the first place.
thedavidwwright I’m going to adopt the George R.R. Martin formula. I’ll put out one book every four years and see where it gets me. Pray for me, Dave. Pray for me.
I would guess the Writer’s Digest crowd does not lean indie. Just a guess though.
Darren Wearmouth shroudbetweenxgranvilleBuddyGott I know! I burnt my damn toast! Now the jam will taste all funny….
Great question, Trish
crissymoss billdowis So what is the purpose of the survey and the results of the survey? Is it comparing indies vs traditional publishing earnings?
melissadonovan I don’t think the SFWA does either. Not sure of the RWA.
If it the report is NOT representative of writers then how can you claim it is on the website where you’re selling it for $300?
I don’t mean to sound like an asshole, but Dana knew she was coming on to talk about this survey and didn’t have numbers ready to go?
My internet connection sucks tonight.
*sadface*
billdowis Did you pay up your $300? Weeelllllll then.
melissadonovan Is it freezing on you? Same thing was happening to me. I had to close all of my windows down and open them up again.
This survey is making me not like WD even more than I already didnt like them.
I mean this interview.
But the survey too.
shroudbetween melissadonovan I think there are just too many awesome people here all at one time and the internet can’t handle it.
billdowis It’s like any magazine. It has its corporate sponsors and if they weren’t getting that Big 5 money, the book wouldn’t come out.
BuddyGott shroudbetweenmelissadonovan Obviously!
Only 33% in a survey about publishing?
shroudbetween melissadonovan I’ll try that.
billdowis Numbers. Terms. Jargon. Jargon.
Trish is a kickASS interviewer by the way!
billdowis I agree, she is owning.
Anymore questions.
Those authors shouldn’t even be considered if they are only writing for their family.
Plenty of those on kboards.
Dropping names won’t make you sound any smarter.
I have made literally HUNDREDS of cents from my books. LITERALLY. No one asked ME about MY experiences…
Carl Sinclair Mindless of the numbers and the amount of people involved with the survey, what is their PERSONAL take on how accurate the survey actually was? It seems like a ruse done to sell more copies of Writers Digest.
billdowis Bill Gates! Nope. Didn’t work. Oprah!?!
xgranville billdowis Jesus. *drops mic*
There are thousands of free games out there too, doesn’t mean that new $60 games that are awesome don’t sell well still.
My comments seem to be lagging.
crissymoss Angry Birds vs Halo. There are just as many indie success stories as corporate blockbuster smashes.
I’m just saying guys….Illuminati?
I had to restart my computer. Grr.
Nice folks here as the guests. It’s good to hear from them.
melissadonovan Sorry to hear that melissa.
melissadonovan Did it fix it?
Porter Anderson has a magnificent accent.
Darren Wearmouth He really does.
Yeah but I’ll keep them to myself.
Darren Wearmouth I was just going to say that.
shroudbetween melissadonovanIt’s better, yes. Still a little slow.
billdowis Darren Wearmouth He’s very cool. Classy and smart guy.
BuddyGott billdowisDarren Wearmouth Plus he gets mad points for looking like the dad from Home Alone.
goddamn, Porter is fuckin smart. I can tell he is genius level just by the way he is talking.
I suspect only Amazon could get a solid poll on the state of things in publishing.
billdowis Or he is that good of a journalist haha.
billdowis It’s the accent.
melissadonovan That could be skewed in the opposite direction too.
billdowis Or good at faking it.
Carl Sinclair melissadonovanTheir survey could be mixed with surveys of brick and mortar?
melissadonovan Carl Sinclair not a terrible idea
I maintain that readers don’t care — and most don’t even know — if the books they read are self-published or traditionally published.
billdowis I just followed him on Twitter. I like this guy.
melissadonovan Carl Sinclair Maybe Google should do it. They know everything about everyone.
melissadonovan I’d suspect they would have to get together with other publishing venues to really get a snap shot, because Wattpad and Smashwords also have a lot of authors that only stick to their platform and no other.
melissadonovan I would argue that some people are adamantly against indie books. Prejudice and all that.
melissadonovan Especially for ebooks. Formatting, editing and good covers speak for themselves as much as a well crafted story does.
shroudbetween melissadonovan Fair. But there are also now a lot of people against traditional books and houses too.
shroudbetween melissadonovan I read “Beetlejuice and all that.”
melissadonovan Looking at my amazon purchase list, 8 of the last 10 books were self published…. Most of the authors are on this board. Hmmm.
I have concluded that I know nothing about this survey. I don’t know what questions it asked, who it asked, what the results were, or why anyone should pay for it. Am I missing something? I feel like I was on another planet when all this came out. Maybe I was busy rebooting my computer.
Carl Sinclair shroudbetweenmelissadonovan I just want to watch the world burn. Sorry.
Liam Kingman melissadonovan You are making disturbing choices with your money, friend ; )
melissadonovan Nope. It’s all gobbygook, fiddlefaddle, nonsense and jargon.
shroudbetween melissadonovanYes but I think they are mostly in the industry somehow. Maybe some academics/students too.
melissadonovan I am with you. Totally lost about the survey. Only what I am picking up from this interview.
Liam Kingman melissadonovan God bless you, sir. You put food on my family’s table. It’s people like you and you’re support that really…. oh… you… you weren’t talking about me, were you?
Carl Sinclair Liam KingmanmelissadonovanJust wanted to see how the other half write. lol
xgranville Carl SinclairshroudbetweenmelissadonovanThat’s so sweet, Xavier.
melissadonovan shroudbetween Nope. They’re just stupid and unfairly general in their opinions. Usually they get burned once, and therefore ALL indie books are crap.
Any questions you want answered before we finish up?
melissadonovan xgranvilleCarl SinclairshroudbetweenThe North is coming. Canada will rise.
Carl Sinclair Yes, when is the SPRT team going to go off topic and make us all belly laugh? Also, who’s wearing pants?
melissadonovan Carl Sinclair I’m not. Okay.. off topic.
melissadonovan Carl Sinclair I’m not wearing pants, but then I have a dress on.
Carl Sinclair Which was their favorite Dr? Ooops, wrong podcast.
Liam Kingman Carl Sinclair Tenant!
crissymoss Liam Kingman Carl Sinclair *Tennant
Liam Kingman Carl SinclairLiam Kingman just became the King, man.
Carl Sinclair Ask the guests this: Star Trek or Star Wars.
Carl Sinclair crissymoss Liam Kingman Even tie for me between Tennant and Smith.
melissadonovan Carl Sinclair Don’t make me laugh on screen please 😛
xgranville Liam Kingman Carl Sinclair I agree there. Liam rocked that comment!!!
I’m not
BuddyGott Carl SinclaircrissymossLiam KingmanDavidson, Eccleston, Tennant and I’ve got a lot of hope for Capaldi.
Liam Kingman Carl Sinclair Eccleston – and I stand by it!
melissadonovan Carl Sinclair Pants? I work from home now! I haven’t worn pants in four days!
shroudbetween melissadonovanCarl Sinclair I work from home, but Canada keeps me clothed. Too cold for boxers.
Carl Sinclair melissadonovanAsk them if they are fans of J.J. Abrams’ lens flare.Who would win in a fight–Superman or Batman (dumb question, I know). Have they read Snow Crash? Are they eagerly anticipating the widespread release of virtual reality game systems?
Carl Sinclair melissadonovanARE THEY WEARING PANTS?
melissadonovan Carl Sinclair Stop it you
melissadonovan Carl Sinclair Their detailed zombie apoc plans/strategies
melissadonovan Carl Sinclair Cilantro or no? Star signs? Chinese zodiac? What is the DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A DUCK!?!
xgranville melissadonovan Carl Sinclair ….and a what?!
Carl Sinclair melissadonovanHa ha. Made you smile. I saw it.
shroudbetween melissadonovan Carl Sinclair I’m slightly troubled by the fact that I so quickly “liked” that Scott hasn’t worn pants for four days.
BuddyGott shroudbetweenmelissadonovanCarl Sinclair Creeps up on you, doesn’t it? Obsession is a deadly game.
To the 29 people watching, what is the best advice the guests can give an aspiring author, indie or not?
Holy Shit! Trish is killin it with this interview! No softball questions here. You’re better than the journalists on the major news networks.
billdowis I’d love to see Trish go up against Anne Coulter or Bill O’Reilly.
People should be self-publishing. Publishing for the people by the people.
melissadonovan I’m going to be 1980 and call you a Communist.
xgranville billdowis Kelly from Fox!
What? I asked a whole bunch of questions!
melissadonovan Yeah! I protest!
melissadonovan That is majestic
Dana complained about the way the people are reading the report, BUT THEY AREN’T LETTING US READ THE REPORT!!!!
Uprising!
melissadonovan I asked them, they didn’t have an opinion on lens flares or Star Trek v Star Wars.
billdowis I think she has made it clear that the price is a problem, in her defence.
melissadonovan Motherland! Yes, I’ve converted. RUSSIA!
No, that IS not how the report is being sold!
Carl Sinclair melissadonovanThen how did they get past the bouncers?
thedavidwwright I agree Dave
The report is being sold as why people prefer traditional pubs.
Carl Sinclair billdowis That tells me that the people in control of this report are biased to traditional publishers.
The author community is abuzz with news of self-published authors who are making very good money by going indie. With the stigma diminishing, this alternative mode of publishing has become increasingly attractive to both new and seasoned authors. However, the 2013 Digital Book World and Writer’s Digest Author Survey found that despite the excitement about self-publishing and complaints about traditional publishing, authors held a strong preference to publish with traditional publishers.This report seeks to understand why.
What advantages do traditional publishers offer authors? The 2014 Digital Book World and Writer’s Digest was designed specifically to compare the perceptions, experiences, and economic returns to authors associated with traditional publishing and self-publishing respectively. In this report, we take a close look at the case to be made to the author community in favor of traditional publishing as well as the areas where traditional publishers might enhance what they offer their current and prospective authors.
melissadonovan Carl Sinclair Blame Trish
thedavidwwright where is that cut and paste from?
thedavidwwright Boom!
Darren Wearmouth thedavidwwrightDavid driving the hammer home.
thedavidwwright That is from the DBW homepage, correct?
thedavidwwright I’m not going to sugar-coat it, Dave… I love you. Will you be my dark Valentine?
crissymoss thedavidwwright from here http://store.digitalbookworld.com/advantages-traditional-publishers-offer-authors-t3591?lid=dbwdaily&et_mid=659116&rid=240989226
I think wanting a traditional publisher is more about not wanting to do all the work.
they just want to write it and move on to the next book.
billdowis Ironic. You’ll be doing all the work anyway.
shroudbetween billdowis yup.
shroudbetween billdowis but they dont have to get a cover and find an editor and format and all that.
Big biz trying to keep the little people down.
Sorry, I tied to hold my tongue. But it needed to be said.
Being legit?.
shroudbetween thedavidwwright Just dont send him candy apples.
writerwade in this day and age indie IS legit.
Can they define traditional publishing? Does it include the small press who only publish on KDP and Createspace?
melissadonovan Being Irish, I’m used to the big man keeping the little man down. I fit neatly into most overnight suitcases.
billdowis writerwade Just drop the mic and walk away, Bill. Literally nothing left to say.
Darren Wearmouth no, it is actual publishing houses. KDP and CreateSpace are self publishing. Some of the smaller presses are small companies that do the work for you, and pay you royalties.
billdowis Carl SinclairThe PROBLEM is that there is a price on the information in general. We are not in the Dark Ages, people. We are entitled to this information. ENTITLED.
crissymoss Darren Wearmouth He is asking whether they are including the small presses that are doing that, but just doing what you could do as a self-publisher. CreateSpace and KDP. Which does happen.
billdowis shroudbetween thedavidwwright I just snorted.
more numbers usually DOES lead to better information. More of the RIGHT numbers.
xgranville billdowisCarl SinclairGet ZC to start a kickstarter to fund the 300 so we can all find out what the hell the survey results are.
billdowis Carl Sinclair What they’re trying to say is that only Writer’s Digest has the answers and for the right price,we can to.
There are a lot of indie publishers out there. Small presses. They are not traditional?
If you’re going to make me pay $300, you better be an authority on what you’re talking about. I call shenanigans.
xgranville I will be an expert in whatever you want me to be if you’re going to pay me $300.
xgranville I call shenanigans at you calling shenanigans but we are in agreement.
Now trish is being nice…this has not cleared up anything for me.
billdowis Traditionally speaking, no.
Liam Kingman xgranvilleShenanigans squared!
xgranville I just love hearing and reading the word “shenanigans.” Can’t hear it enough!
Even Porter knows that Trish is a kickass interviewer.
After party or HHHWWWHAATT?
BuddyGott xgranville How do you even spell shenanigans?
billdowis The answer is – the survey is not a scientific representation of anything.
No after party? gah!
Can I have an after party invite please?
We will have an after-party. Leave your messages here. It will be a few minutes.
Carl Sinclair billdowis THAT cleared it up for me.
Carl Sinclair billdowis But still pay a shit-tone of money for it… because reasons.
Carl Sinclair boom. I’m in yo.
RemarkableReads Carl Sinclair Likewise if there’s room.
Carl Sinclair Haven’t hung with you guys in awhile. I’m definitely in.
shroudbetween Carl SinclairbilldowisI love reasons! Take my money!
Carl Sinclair I gotta get to bed…but please tell Trish she is my hero. A great investigative journalist.
shroudbetween BuddyGottxgranvilleWith two s.
My computer or internet connection is all out of whack again. Where is Iron Man when you need him?
Sending them out in 1 minute.
Google is being a slow bitch…
The SPRT Afterparty crew tonight.
Carl Sinclair Looks like you guys are having more fun than me. Then again doing quality assurance reviews for a callcenter isn’t exactly a party.
How so? WD submitted the survey on behalf of Digital Book World. There was no overture made to respondents re: subscriptions to WD.
– Phil
Why? I’d really like to know. Feel free to email me at phil.sexton@fwmedia.com
Not true. Guys, I understand wanting to take shots at the “corporate” thing, but we’re not Big 5, nor do we get Big 5 money. Really not really sure I understand the antagonism.
The WD crowd is going more indie all the time. And actually WD itself has always recognized and tried to assist indie writers even before is was an “acceptable” form of publishing. The magazine, the conference, all of it has a component meant for indie writers. We’ve been publishing The Complete Guide to Self-Publishing for about 20 years now and just this year launched a new annual entitled the 2014 Guide to Self-Publishing.
I’ll see what I can do. One of the things to understand is that the survey was created by Digital Book World for the publishing community – and by that I mean publishers, not authors. The survey results were presented as “What Authors Want” and is meant to help publishers understand how they are falling short of providing what matters to authors in the publishing experience. It makes it pretty clear that authors who are choosing to self publish are more satisfied on a number of fronts and on the remaining fronts the satisfaction levels are about the same as they are for those who are traditionally publishing.
As noted, I’ll talk to the powers that be to see if I can get the questions (or even make the case to get the survey released). Please note, the survey does not belong to WD – we distribute it, but it’s a DBW property, so I’ll have to convince those folks to release the data.
Nope. The report was designed as a tool so that traditional publishers would have abetted understanding of what’s most important to authors, both indie and traditional. The publishing landscape is changing rapidly, obviously, and it’s to try and help publishers keep up. Right now they’re pretty much in the dark. If its of any comfort, the report makes it pretty clear that traditional publishers are failing authors right now and now fighting to stay competitive with what self publishing has to offer. I say that as a publisher who has read the report. The data is not biased toward traditional publishing. The data simply is (and it reflects favorably on indie publishing, but most of all on hybrid authorship.
Actually I liked the lens flares and was hoping to see more of them in Her and August: Osage County as well.
Write a kick ass book. Worry about the rest once you’ve done that.
Trek TV. Wars films.
Writers yes, readers I’m not sure. Most readers don’t know the difference between CreateSpace and Perigee, or any other publishing house. What they can detect, however, is differences in quality. If you produce an indie book that’s well written, well edited, well designed and well produced, most readers could care less who published it. That’s only my opinion though…
Phil Sexton I think he should put out a new movie: JJ Abrams presents; Lens Flares.
Just don’t even pretend there is anything else happening.
Indeed. In IMAX 3-D
Phil Sexton Thanks for the comment Phil. I haven’t read it, so I can’t comment on specifics. From what I understand is that the data isn’t clear for indie or trad authors because of the sample that was able to be garnered. I don’t feel from what I know, and after talking to you, that it was a veiled or deliberate attack on indie publishing.
Although, it would appear some traditional publishers are using it as such.
Phil Sexton Most readers wouldn’t know if the indie author took those steps. Especially those that have set up their own company name to publish under. There is still a justified stigma on self-pub, because some authors are hitting publish on anything.
That being said, there are still plenty of traditionally published books that are not worth the money being asked for them either. In my opinion, at least.
Phil Sexton Thanks for stating that Phil. I’ve featured that comment for people to see.
Phil Sexton Thank you for at least considering it and putting a case forward.
Wow, we are so good we wore you down by the end of the show so you ha to visit us in the after party and then stayed 2.5 hours. It was great chatting to you though. 🙂 Darren Wearmouth BuddyGottxgranville
Trish McCallan Darren Wearmouth BuddyGott xgranville Enjoyed it a lot! Nice chatting Trish, great job tonight.
Phil SextonI’m not being literal in my accusations, nor do I think you are Big 5. What I was getting at is that the magazine has its readers at heart, and its readers are writers seeking publication. What I worry about is that by presenting the information at a cost, you’re only profiting off of the otherwise uneducated, and they can easily find that knowledge for free elsewhere. I’ve been a subscriber to the newsletter for years, but I often find myself ignoring anything that has a price tag on it because that information is already out there for free.
billdowis Carl SinclairI was trying to cut down to the nitty gritty without being confrontational. lol
Phil Sexton I think nowadays you have to be very specific on how these types of surveys are carried out. If there is misrepresentation from any side of research, the entire thing becomes biased. Since WD is profiting off of the survey, I only ask that all parties be represented accurately if stated as such. Obviously not every writer in the world, self published or not, will have their voices heard, BUT if an entire community of self-published writers have already shown you that the numbers are off, I would have stopped claiming to be authority and taken down the part of the survey where you need to pay for the information.
Carl Sinclair Phil Sexton And since you have to pay $300 in order to read the report, I, as a self publisher, don’t have the time or funds in order to give WD the time to better explain what they were getting at with the survey.
If the information was given away instead of charged for like it should, there wouldn’t be angry Canadians like me thinking that something is amiss in the survey at all.
With information comes understanding, and it wasn’t until tonight that I actually gleamed anything at all from what the survey was trying to get across. You, Phil did that. Your information is what we’re lacking as people not willing to surrender that three hundred dollars. It was awesome having you on today to talk about it, because otherwise we end up just talking about it amongst ourselves without ever learning anything new, especially from the other side of the equation.
Phil Sexton Perfect answer.
Phil Sexton Thanks, Phil. I know you’re getting the brunt of the lashings on here, but know we totally get what you’re saying, and in no way are we blaming WD, or you. The intentions for coming up with the survey were good, and its great to know that even after such a survey, something created to hear the voices of authors and publishers, that you’re still continuing to seek out those voices by doing appearances on shows like this. Well done, sir.
xgranville Carl Sinclair Phil Sexton Thanks. The difficult thing regarding the price of the report is that DBW is a B2B company. They asked WD to conduct the survey, since we’re connected with the writing community, then they developed the report for sale primarily to publishers who presumably have the marketing dollars to invest in the information. That’s DBW’s business model. Writer’s Digest gets $0 from any sales of the report. Nada. Even if we should happen to sell it in the WD online shop, we still get $0. It all goes back to DBW. That said, I’m talking to the DBW people now and asking them for the survey questions to forward to Carl for distribution to anyone who’s interested and I’ve also suggested that they create a version of the report that can either be given away (unlikely) or offered at a much lower price, like $19.99 (possible).
xgranville Phil Sexton Oh, I hear you. I would reiterate that WD gets $0 from any copies of the survey that are sold. And the survey, while I agree has limitations, does provide new information that is valuable. it’s certainly changed the way I do business, to the benefit of the writer. At the end of the day, the survey still enables us to get insights from more than 3000 published authors (indie and traditional) which is a scale of information that we’ve not seen before. It may be that a segment of writers who didn’t see the survey would skew the numbers differently, but the numbers still fall in favor of self publishing and hybrid publishing in particular.
As to the assertion that a community of self published authors have shown that the numbers are off, that’s an anecdote brought up during last night’s round table, so it’s hard for me to comment on. Out of the hundreds of thousands of people self publishing, what % do those writers represent? I’ve no idea, but I get the feeling that what those writers would like is a survey that is more specifically focused on the kind of writers they are, i.e. the aspiring pro, not the mom who writes a memoir meant mainly for friends and family. Seeing what the average revenue of those people might be, if we ran a survey that segmented that group of people who identified themselves as career authors, would of course turn up different results.
Phil Sexton xgranville But you said this survey was meant for publishers. To give publishers a hint of how author’s are feeling toward them. Don’t you think the publishers would be more interested in the feelings/opinions of the career authors as opposed to the mom just writing her memoirs for family and friends? I can see publishers being interested in career authors, since these would make up the rank of authors submitting to them. Not so much the mom writing memoirs because she wouldn’t be submitting to them. So this argument doesn’t really hold water. If you were doing this survey for publishers, why weren’t career authors the focus?
Also, if you did this survey for publishers, which you have said in the comments now several times, they WHY are you selling it to authors? What is it telling authors that is worth $300?
crissymoss billdowis Dana did a series of blog posts that give out the most information about the survey. You can find some info here http://www.digitalbookworld.com/2013/self-publishing-debate-part1/
Trish McCallan Phil Sexton xgranville Sure, I would assume there will always be ways to narrow the results and improve the analysis of data. This initial round of data collection actually provides a base of authors for DBW to go back out to and ask additional, more specific questions, which is very difficult to do in a larger, more general survey. Most people don’t want to answer more than 20 questions or so and I believe the most recent survey had something like 40 or 50 questions in it. When the survey was run back in 2013, they went back out to ask the hybrid respondents additional, more specific questions. So this year, I suspect they’ll go back out to the relatively large base of self published authors who responded (and perhaps the hybrids again) to ask more specific questions as well, such as their reasons for doing what they do, their expectations, etc. The initial survey is usually the broadest in terms of respondents and results. Regardless, traditional publishers have shown themselves to be interested in the data, even if it casts a fairly wide net. In part, I suspect that’s because the industry is relatively started for this sort of data.
I’m not sure I understand your second question. If an author wants to buy the report for some reason, I don’t think DBW is going to tell them they’re not allowed to. By and large, the largest portion of DBW members are industry professionals, and by that I mean people working for publishing houses that offer advances and royalties to authors and work within the legacy publishing system that is currently transitioning into whatever it is you want to call this new era of publishing. DBW was created with the goal of helping the legacy publishing industry adapt to what was happening with ebooks, self publishing, content management, etc. So when they’re sending out newsletters, emails, promotional offers, etc, the assumption is that’s the bulk of the audience they’re reaching (that’s the bulk of who attends the annual DBW conference as well). Over time, however, there have been a fair number of authors who have joined or signed up for the newsletter, so yes, they’re likely caught up in the marketing for the report, etc. But they’re not the reason for the creation of the report. I haven’t seen DBW’s marketing for the report yet, so should probably let one of them address their goals there, but I’d be surprised if it was directly targeting authors, since that’s the smallest DBW member base. I know when they wrote the first report back in 2013, they added it to the WD online shop. I guess they figured they had the thing created so why not. The title was What Authors Want: Understanding Authors in the Era of Self-Publishing, and the descriptive copy carried a similar tone – really not even addressing authors as the potential customer. It’s not surprising, then, that the WD customers never bought it. I think it likely the authors believed they had a pretty good handle on what they wanted already. DBW hasn’t yet added the new report to our shop and I don’t suspect they will in its current incarnation.
On a related note, I talked to the director of DBW this morning and told him that a lot of writers wanted the info but couldn’t afford it. He gave me the okay to send out the questions from the survey, so I’ll be forwarding those to Carl next week. He also agreed that they should probably commission a new report for authors detailing the same data. Unfortunately, they aren’t going to hire the writer and then give the new report away for free, which I know we’d all like, but they said it would carry a retail of something like $20. Best I could do, I’m afraid. I think their target date for that is end of month, first week of March.
Phil Sexton Trish McCallanxgranvillePhil, I just wanted to tell you how much we appreciate you sticking around and joining the discussion. And we also really appreciate you talking DBW into letting us post the survey questions on our site. As for knocking the price down to $20 for authors, that is a huge drop from the original price and is very much appreciated as well. So thank you for going to bat for us with DBW and your participation through the past three days! 🙂
I just listened and I’m very disappointed in the way they handled this.
I actually took this survey, and felt the flaws even as I was filling it out.
It was a self-selected audience, whether it was on purpose or not. Is it an agenda, ignorance, or accident? Hard to know for sure.
The terms weren’t even defined well in the survey, and I know people who believe that simply having a hardcopy book means that you went to a traditional publisher. I know people how think (or say for effect) that a vanity press IS a traditional publisher. In the fitness industry , there are small presses that will compile your work with the work of other fitness professionals (charging each of them) and producing one big book with 25+ authors. These authors, each of which basically wrote an essay, article, or training program, often claim that they are published by a traditional press. How would these guys answer that question? 😉