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Welcome back to the Self-Publishing Roundtable, the weekly self pub news and interview show. For indie authors, by indie authors.
This is the first of two shows this week. Our regular show will run Thursday Night at 9PM EST featuring Darren Wearmouth.
We are delighted to welcome Hugh Howey to the show this week as well.
I don’t think that I need to introduce Hugh to you. Just in case you have been living under a rock, he wrote Wool. Things went well after that.
Hugh launched a new site this week, www.authorearnings.com.
With that move, he has ripped the wool off the publishing industry by teaming up with a computer programmer to data mine Amazon.
We understand the website has already had so much traffic, the site has been crashing off and on all day.
Joe Konrath and Chuck Wendig have already blogged about the site. As has Hugh. I strongly recommend you read all three posts before the show.
We think it’s amazing news, so we reached out to see if Hugh wanted to come on and talk to about it.
We welcome your questions in our live chat on this site. We try and interact with our viewers during our live shows, so please join in the conversation and put your questions to Hugh.
We look forward to seeing you Wednesday night.
Note: If you like the show, and never want to miss an episode. Then we would love if you could subscribe to our YouTube channel.
Remember to give the videos a thumbs up. It helps us a lot!
Thank you.
Hello everyone. Hope you’re doing well. We’re looking forward to a great show tonight.
I’m beyond excited for tonight’s show. I’ve got a bottle of wine and a bag of plantain chips on standby. 😉
brigidashwood Well, I hope the episode doesn’t drive you to drink. I’m glad you’re here.
Howdy all. This is my first time here and I’ve only seen a few episodes. I have the aircon on cause it’s stinking hot here and I have Mexican coke!
jlward brigidashwood Oh I’m counting on it! But in a good way! 🙂
BatmanErica Coke with pure cane sugar… at least, I hope that’s the type of Coke you’re talking about. Thanks for being here.
BatmanErica Welcome.
brigidashwood Welcome.
jlward we have real coke here in NZ not that fake American coke 😛 I just like getting a long tall glass bottle of Mexican coke 😀
Carl Sinclair thanks. Talked hubby into turning my internet on early today, just so I can watch this episode 😀
Hey all… How’s it going?
If it’s your first time here in the live comments. Please speak up. Ask questions. We will try and address them if we don’t have them on our list. We welcome a lively discussion and these comments are monitored and moderated. Enjoy the show!
crissymoss it’s going good. Have you told the NSA what colour your underwear is today? 😛
Carl Sinclair will there be an after party hangout today?
BatmanErica Carl Sinclair I assume so. I wont be there today. John will be the man with the power.
Hi everyone!
We are just about ready to go.
How is everyone tonight? Full of questions for Hugh?
Have a great show. Thank you all for making this happen.
melissadonovan Hello dear.
Howdy all.
Halloooooo!
Greetings, all!
BuddyGott Hey, happy birthday old man.
We’ll be starting any second now. Just wrapping up some things before we go live.
Liam Kingman No problem, man. I couldn’t have done it without you!
sryeager BuddyGott Thanks, Steve!
BuddyGott It’s your birthday? Many happy returns!
Hello!
jlward Welcome back John.
melissadonovan BuddyGott Thanks, Melissa! 🙂
How do you guys watch the podcast and read the comments at the same time? Scroll? Multiple tabs?
Mr Howey has arrived. We are just getting everything set up with him now.
BatmanErica I have a desktop, laptop, and an iPad all going at the same time.
BatmanErica I open a second window and make both windows skinny enough to fit on my screen.
BatmanErica “Volunteer” child labor.
shroudbetween not sure how that one would work, do you have the child scroll for you?
BatmanErica There’s a lot of shouting involved… and rice crispies… it’s not pretty.
I am about to crack open some Girl Scout cookies.
melissadonovan What kind?
Waddup, people?
jlward melissadonovanSamoas.
HughHowey Welcome to the show Hugh!
HughHowey Waddup, Hugh
Let’s get this party started!!!!!
HughHowey Thanks for doing the show Hugh.
BuddyGott Happy birthday to you! HAPPY BIRTHDAY DEAR BBBBBBUUUUUUUDDDDDDDDDYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Happy birthday to you!
Carl Sinclair did you get his list of rider requests? I think he only drinks bottles of publisher tears now
HughHowey yo Hugh!
HughHowey You look familiar…
crissymoss BuddyGott Aw! Thank you, Crissy!
HughHowey run for your life, these peeps are crazy. Especially Carl!!!! He hunts kangaroos.
HughHowey Fantastic article, can’t wait to hear the discussion
BatmanErica crissymossI knew I like BatmanErika right when I saw her name. Now I’m absolutely certain.
BrennaAubrey HughHowey I don’t hunt. I kill.
BrennaAubrey HughHowey And he refuses to go without pants.
If you have any questions, let me know. I’m here for that!
HughHowey Heya Hugh!
Carl Sinclair BrennaAubrey HughHowey Little known fact: Carl is the one who shot Dick Cheney in that hunting “accident” years ago.
crissymoss Crissy is the comment queeen tonight guys.
Whats up, Hugh…The Sandman!!
Greetings from the Great White North, everyone.
55 comments already and the show hasnt even started.
So when this show is a big and famous Internet phenomenon, do I get to brag that I was the first guest?
Are you guys seeing the show okay?
xgranville That is so racist…
Carl Sinclair crissymoss Crissy is the Queen of SPRT – every week!
Carl Sinclair no it’s says “starting soon”
Carl Sinclair Not I. Still says “Starting soon”
shroudbetween xgranville I had hopes I was being clear. Clear.
Carl Sinclair Starting soon…black screen
Carl Sinclair crissymoss What Hugh Howey? i thought it was Hugh Hefner tonight. I guess I’ll still stick around.
Carl Sinclair Nope, “starting soon”
melissadonovan BrennaAubrey HughHowey good thing we can only see him from the waist up, then!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gaey6a0zgA&feature=youtu.be
Sorry the video doesn’t seem to be working on the site. Here it is. We are live.
Ill fix the post in 2 seconds here.
Carl Sinclair That worked
Should we still comment on here?
Dave is back!
Okay guys. I’ve fixed the page. If you refresh it should be live for you now.
Carl Sinclair BOO YAH
Carl Sinclair Hooray!
melissadonovan *squee*
Carl Sinclair I refreshed and was able to see the feed.
jlward Carl Sinclair Works now.
Evening!
My response to the cattle comment: MOoooooOoooooOOOOOOOoooooOOOoooOOoo
Sorry if you missed the first few minutes. You’ll be able to go back and watch it on YouTube later on. Hugh was just explaining how the site came about briefly.
Darren Wearmouth yo mate
Darren Wearmouth Hey Darren.
66 people watching. Very good, very good.
billdowis Yes. It’s working now.
Darren Wearmouth Evening, sir!
xgranville Many more will watch in the coming days too.
xgranville Darren Wearmouth All right lads 🙂
This poses to be a very special Wednesday SPRT.
xgranville and to think we come back tomorrow with Darren Wearmouth !
Carl Sinclair xgranvilleDarren Wearmouth I’ll have a fresh pair of pants ready.
Carl Sinclair xgranville Darren Wearmouth No pressure!
shroudbetween Carl Sinclair xgranville Darren Wearmouth Poor Hugh had to be the opening act for Darren.
Liam Kingman shroudbetween Carl Sinclair xgranville Darren Wearmouth Well, Hugh has to start somewhere. It might get him a little exposure, which would be helpful, I’m sure.
118 live viewers across here and YouTube. Awesome guys! Thanks for the support. This is a huge story!
I am totally on board with Hugh’s philosophy.
Carl Sinclair Boom, baby!
Carl Sinclair abandoned school pickup for this #motherpriorities
What are Hugh’s thoughts about Chuck Wendig’s comment saying that the sample selection doesn’t take into account other ways books make money. (foreign rights, movie options. yadda yadda)
Shay Barratt Carl Sinclair Yay Shay! Who else will sacrifice for authorearnings.com! Maybe an arm or leg?
billdowis We’ll come to that Billbo.
billdowis We plan on asking that.
Carl Sinclair billdowis Nasty hobbitses.
I’d be interested to hear Hugh’s thoughts on whether the average reader cares or even pays attention to whether a book is traditionally or self-published. If so, is it a small or large percentage who care?
Hugh, I know you advocate strongly for a true Writer’s Guild but what are your thoughts on the possible anti-trust issues that something like that might bring about?
Carl Sinclair It’s awesome! 🙂
BrennaAubrey Good question. We’ll get to this later. Crissy – take it down.
melissadonovan I don’t think they pay attention to that, because there are so many indie’s in the top 100.
melissadonovan my understanding is that the average reader doesn’t care. I have no stats to back that up but that’s what I’ve heard.
BrennaAubrey Hey Brenna, I enjoyed your interview a few weeks back.
Another question…Does Hugh think that it will eventually be easier and more affordable for indies to get their physical books into bookstores. Mainly Indie stores.
jlward BrennaAubrey thanks! glad to hear it 🙂
jlward Good to see you back on the show 🙂
melissadonovan The numbers on authorearnings.com showed a pretty good scope of it. The amount of self published sold shows just how much people are embracing self publishing and indie writers.
Did Simon & Schuster offer for Shift or Dust? I noticed they were Createspace and not in my local Asda!
melissadonovan jlward We are happy to have John and Dave back for this week. Hopefully again soon.
BrennaAubrey Also, what stopgaps would be in place to keep it from becoming predatory – like the Screen Actor’s Guild (which became a union) in Hollywood?
Everyone has gone quiet. Nobody has anything to say or ask?
I am lagging on the comments a little.
Carl Sinclair What you’re hearing is the sound of respect.
Carl Sinclair They have asked a lot, want me to start asking questions?
Carl Sinclair shhh not while we’re watching / listening 😛
Carl Sinclair waiting on my last question LOL!
Carl Sinclair Far too interesting listening to Hugh for my usual witty comeback.
Carl Sinclair Can’t speak for anyone else but I’m wrapped up in the show.
billdowis We might be killing the site with this much traffic.
BuddyGott Carl Sinclair I was just typing that, Buddy, but as usual you read my mind.
Carl Sinclair billdowis Unleash the chaos.
xgranville Carl Sinclair billdowis Misread as “Unleash the tacos.”
shroudbetween xgranvilleCarl Sinclairbilldowis Tacodile Supreme!
xgranville shroudbetween Carl Sinclair billdowis Mmmm…tacos!
Well said, Hugh. This isn’t about trad vs. indie. This about readers AND writers, period.
MelissaLummis I’m sick of this so called war. I’m just about doing the best thing for my business. I don’t care which way that happens. I want to learn and build. Not fight.
Carl Sinclair billdowis It’ll only make it stronger. 😉
Carl Sinclair MelissaLummis Peace, brother.
I write sci fi lite, this is something I’m interested in knowing, where to put the damn things >.<
Carl Sinclair MelissaLummis yes the whole “us vs. them” thing is getting super tiring
Carl Sinclair MelissaLummis Amen! (Haven’t been in a church in years, but I’ll say that here.)
MelissaLummis The us vs. them framing is motivated by fear and ego. It’s a bummer.
xgranville Carl Sinclair MelissaLummis War, huh, yeeaah, what is it good for?
shroudbetween xgranville Carl Sinclair MelissaLummis Make love, not war, my friend.
BatmanErica Try this with keybords, it might help you https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A200PDGPEIQX41
MelissaLummis shroudbetween xgranville Carl Sinclair Oh I do!
Carl Sinclair MelissaLummis Me too. I pretty much ignore the “war” and do my own thing while trying my best to support all writers, regardless of how they choose to publish.
shroudbetween xgranville Carl Sinclair MelissaLummis Absolutely nothing. Huh.
crissymoss thanks, I’ll study that tonight 🙂
My books are self published, so you can check that box for me. One down. Every little bit helps. You’re welcome.
Carl Sinclair billdowis Trying to crash the site just like authorearnings.com in honor of Hugh.
brigidashwood MelissaLummis totally agree. I think the efforts to disparage are an absolutely waste of energy. Imagine what we could accomplish if we stopped looking at whether a book was indie or trad and instead put all that energy to developing better genre categories to get readers what they want exactly when they want it.
My prediction: in two years massive increase in hybrid authors as those currently trad publishing work through their existing contracts.
Shay Barratt Alright happening, so I imagine once self publishing really starts affecting the Big Five companies, I imagine they’ll all have to start going hybrid in one way or another.
As much as I agree that Hugh’s guy should get a lot of donuts, now I want donuts.
BuddyGott I’ll pass on the donuts but when you start talking wine, I’m all in.
MelissaLummis BuddyGott The lady has a point.
xgranville MelissaLummis BuddyGott *literally just got a glass of wine…*
xgranville MelissaLummis BuddyGott Raising my glass to you, my friends.
Shay Barratt If they offered print only contracts I’d totally go through them.
Dave isn’t in frame. Someone ask him to move his webcam so we can see his bearded visage 😀
crissymoss Shay Barratt Yeah, if the Big Five became Createspace on steroids, I’d consider them.
BatmanErica Unleash the fury.
We need to be encouraging new books, not setting up data tables to discourage. I’m looking forward to what this new venture will accomplish and eager to be a part of it.
MelissaLummis BuddyGott waaaaay ahead of ya’ll
xgranville BatmanErica Not misread as “Unleash the furry.”
But I should have…
brigidashwood MelissaLummis BuddyGott *clinks glasses*
MelissaLummis brigidashwood BuddyGott *clink* *hiccup*
BatmanErica We asked. Better now?
BatmanErica I think Dave is just being generous. He doesn’t want his sexiness to distract from the rest of the show.
shroudbetween xgranvilleBatmanErica Everyone goes off frame and come back to interview Hugh in furry costumes.
What’s Hugh’s take on Amazon publishing?
jlward a little…he really likes that bottom right corner
If you are watching, I would love it if you guys could thumbs up the YouTube video. It helps us with promoting the show.
xgranville shroudbetween BatmanErica who would wear what?
Darren Wearmouth What do you mean? He’s done mostly Amazon publishing.
crissymoss Darren Wearmouth He means the amazon imprints. 47North etc
Carl Sinclair Done!
Carl Sinclair You’re asking a lot, Sinclair. (Kidding. Of Course I’ll do it.)
BuddyGott Carl Sinclair Thanks guys.
BuddyGott true. Even though he’s just a little thumbnail on my screen, me eyes are continually drawn to him…
Carl Sinclair Done =)
BatmanErica xgranvilleshroudbetween I think there would be some surprises.
Darren Wearmouth He covers that in the report. He talks about how Amazon has such an amazing ability to promote their books. From my memory, they get like 15% of the share compared to like 4% from the traditional guys. That’s just me trying to remember what the report said though.
Carl Sinclair BuddyGott Dunn.
Carl Sinclair Subscribed too!
BatmanErica xgranville shroudbetween What’s got two thumbs and would totally wear a tanooki suit? THIS GUY!
shroudbetween BatmanEricaxgranville Tanooki for the wiiiin!!
WHEN is hugh charging $300 for this?
Dave rocks. That is all.
Carl Sinclair Done.
billdowis ROFL, no, DBW is charging $300 for their survey.
Hugh Howey and David Wright are laying the smackdown.
jlward Darren Wearmouth Personally I think they do a great job at promoting their authors. A quick look at the new/popular lists and the daily deal shows it. Their royalties are also based on gross and higher than than the trads…
BuddyGott agree. Dave says what we all want to say
Carl Sinclair Done.
Shay Barratt BuddyGott Dave is a lot like Jesus. Okay, he’s nothing like Jesus. They both do have awesome beards, though.
crissymoss billdowis I know that… I was being funny. lol
BuddyGott Shay Barratt Whoa whoa whoa! Dave is middle-eastern?!
Question for Hugh: How was the serial format of Sand different then how Wool was done with a set of separate novellas?
How was the selling experience and how well did they sell in comparison to the other. No need for numbers.
xgranville SAND was written as a serial. Wool was a stand-a-lone at the start. That’s my understanding. We’ll ask if we have time though : )
Carl Sinclair Done, but next time my fee doubles.
Carl Sinclair xgranville More on how the selling went, I get the difference in formats. I was wondering how the two compared as far as fan reaction and how they bought them, i.e. weekly or waiting for the season/full set.
Hugh, sitting on our hands realistically wouldn’t work – if the guild did that, all the people *not* in the guild would say “Now’s my chance!” and send in their MS. When you’ve got hundreds of submissions today, you’ve got the luxury of losing half of them and not missing a beat.
Adding all y’all to my Google+ circles. Anyone commenting tonight is clearly serious about the biz and I want to learn more. It’s not stalking.
Reading only indie books….does that make them hipsters?
Just realised that Hugh could be the Robert Redford of indiepublishing
PatrickStemp I promise to probably not report you for stalking… probably
PatrickStemp quick, get the decoy google+
BatmanErica PatrickStemp +1
BatmanErica PatrickStemp I can keep it in my decoy wallet.
PatrickStemp BatmanErica wait, do you also live in redacted?
PatrickStemp BatmanErica O___o
All of us, as indie authors, can do incredible things if we band together. I like the idea of a guild. I wonder if it could also be a way to get more affordable insurance and other benefits that people with conventional jobs have.
Hugh is my hero. He carries the banner for us indies with class and grace.
Ugh, the last five minutes is why i worship at the altar Howey. You are the patron saint of indie arts man. My hero.
Joe Nobody Hey Joe. Welcome to the show.
Joe Nobody That he does
Joe Nobody Good evening, sir!
Very cool to listen to the legendary Hugh Howy. I totally agree with his comments on discovering indie authors. All the books I’ve read recently have been self-published and I’ve been really impressed. We’re rockin’ it.
Joe Nobody Yeah he makes the rest of us look bad. Thanks Hugh. lol
MelissaPearlG Hello my dear friend. Thanks for making it!
MelissaPearlG Truth!
PatrickStemp Oh, btw, for you and anyone interested – on the G+ I’m Scott Richards.
shroudbetween PatrickStemp Rich Scottards.
130 live viewers across the two platforms. Awesome work!
shroudbetween PatrickStemp Which one, there are a few and the pic is different
I still like the guy despite Mrs. Nobody’s desire for her first book to be Wool fanfic. What am I? Chopped liver? LOL
Carl Sinclair File that one away into the spankbank.
Ooh query-go-round, love that term
shroudbetween PatrickStemp NO! THE Scott Richards?! *faints*
PatrickStemp shroudbetween It’s a cartoon of kids talking, and the characters above their heads
Joe Nobody Ha! I’m from New Zealand. I’m writing a book called “The Real Wool Story” it’s about sheep and… well… it will be new adult or erotica most likely.
Joe Nobody suggest that be her second book, so she can use the fanfic to direct readers to her other book
Much prefer David’s side profile with a big microphone.
Instead of hearing the stories of people selling tens of thousands of dollars a month, I want to hear the stories of people grinding it out every month to pay the bills, but still consider themselves successful self publishers and don’t need to work another job.
Carl Sinclair Joe Nobody Does it include free gift of gumboots Carl?
Carl Sinclair Joe Nobody I gotta see the cover THAT one. 😀
Darren Wearmouth Me too.
Carl Sinclair Joe Nobody will you sell the movie rights to peter jackson?
I’ve yet to publish my fiction but I have self – published to niche market kids activity books – that have steadily brought me 300 to 500 a month since I published them. It was this money that helped my family stay afloat while my husband was laid off. Also FYI for 2 years these books were available print only on Amazon, not in e-book form.
Anonymously blog??? Damn I should have waited on that !
Carl Sinclair Darren WearmouthNot me. I like the front-and-center angle.
Darren Wearmouth thats what she said.
Carl Sinclair Darren Wearmouth He likes to tinker. Deep down he’s a lover of interior design.
MelissaLummis shroudbetween PatrickStemp Always nice to meet a fan. Thanks for reading. Autographs are $200. It’s for charity or something.
Carl Sinclair Joe Nobody Carl’s autobiography.
Query-go-round – SO glad to be off that thing and actually be earning some money doing something I love. We are so lucky to be in this position.
melissadonovan Carl Sinclair Darren Wearmouth pity his name tag covers his beard
shroudbetween MelissaLummisPatrickStemp It’s so he can afford SARS masks.
Great question Dave
Hugh Howey: “Speak with our hearts.”
xgranville And be kind! Don’t forget the most important part
shroudbetween PatrickStemp Got it. Cheers.
So positive I nearly threw up.
I agree! We should totally be celebrating the fact we get to WRITE and get paid for it. Even if it’s only pennies. Not many people in the world get paid to do something they love.
MelissaLummis xgranville Wheatons law, “Don’t Be A Dick!”
Some indies are now understating their earnings. They think it is a lightening rod.
MelissaPearlG shroudbetween makes literally hundreds and hundreds of cents and he loves it. Hey Scotty?
MelissaPearlG Just ask Carl about my– Beat me to it, Carl!
shroudbetween MelissaPearlG He’s the Scrooge McDuck of Self Publishing.
Fantastic thought. I need to publish X books before even caring about making money.
billdowis Every book I publish is an X book.
Steven is a blackjack dealer in Vegas. I saw him right next to Elvis.
Joe Nobody He’s a good guy. Throw him some pennies next time you see him Joe.
I was writing anyway. Being able to publish is icing on the cake. Don’t get me wrong, I want to run a successful business, but if you’re only focusing on making money, you are going to be utterly effin’ miserable.
Well I’m not earning a living at my writing.
billdowis and “I need to write X amount/time before I get to do anything else”
It’s not a gold rush?!?!?!?!? Taking my pan and going home!
I have no idea what was said in the last five minutes. My six month old and I were in a screaming contest. I won.
shroudbetween Never lose. It sets a precedent.
MelissaLummis shroudbetween 100% agreement. She was laughing in between screams. Not gonna lie, I love my child.
crissymoss I have to remind myself…stop talking/reading/posting/thinking about doing something and just do it.
Can we all start calling Hugh the Sandman?
billdowis If you wanna be creepy. Go for it.
Carl Sinclair Hey…we all love being a little creepy.
BatmanErica Takes time and a lot of releases. The work will find an audience eventually, but work is work in the end.
Did he use expanded distribution on Createspace, and was it useful?
billdowis Carl Sinclair Ridiculous.
Thanks for coming everyone. We hope you enjoyed the show. Don’t forget to like the video on YouTube and promote it to your friends. Great info here from Hugh.
Carl Sinclair Great show, SPRT gang!
Carl Sinclair Excellent show. Promoting now…
Carl Sinclair Knocked it out of the park, guys. Awesome show, great job.
Speaking of Germany, anyone know the average prices for ebooks over there?
9 more comments for 300 tonight? You can do it guys! ; )
Carl Sinclair Thanks for hosting. Great conversation.
BatmanErica Trish might know. She’s doing really well there.
Carl Sinclair So demanding.
Carl Sinclair 292 now.
Carl Sinclair Work, work, work. Do I get $1 for every 1k characters? 😉
MelissaLummis Carl Sinclair Sure. Just send your bill to @buddygott
Carl Sinclairhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxdmw4tJJ1Y
Carl Sinclair I’m toying with translation but want to know if it’s worth it for novellas and shorter works.
Carl Sinclair Get my expanded distribution question in! I’d love to know if it actually works for popular books. Most people say it’s shite.
BatmanErica Carl Sinclair Do a compilation. It’s worth a shot.
ROCK you like a HURRICAAAANNEEE!!!!
Darren Wearmouth Carl Sinclair Kris Rush reckons you can if you price it high enough for all the distributors to take their cut. Will look for link to blog post fo ryou.
xgranville There it is!
Carl Sinclair MelissaLummisAnd thus he conquers the internet even more.
BatmanErica Darren Wearmouth Carl Sinclair Cheers.
shroudbetween xgranville Majestic.
Late to the discussion. Hi all.
Data Guy Welcome, Guy!
Data Guy Hello! *waves*
And Trish CRUSHES it again!
Darren Wearmouth BatmanErica Carl Sinclair http://kriswrites.com/2014/01/22/the-business-rusch-pricing-part-2-or-discoverability-part-7-continued/
Woot, Trish!!!! 😀
shroudbetween We all crush on Trish!
Hey, xgranville.
Please ask Hugh if Sand has helped eliminate some of his fears of never being able to produce another great book.
xgranville BatmanErica Carl Sinclair I do have a collection bundle but translators charge per word >.<
http://authorearnings.com/
Digital Book World has already responded, and said that the numbers basically agree with their survey: http://www.digitalbookworld.com/2014/analyzing-the-author-earnings-data-using-basic-analytics/
In other words, some people are getting rich, many aren’t, and Amazon Publishing (47 North, Montlake, etc) do a great job selling their books.
I’m just the messenger, don’t shoot me.
Also, when Howey talked about self-selected data – and I’m not defending the Writers Digest/DBW survey, I’m just fascinated by the whole thing plus I have a background in market research so I’m all about the bias and statistical relevance – isn’t he doing the same thing by asking people to report their numbers on his site? Not to mention that his assumptions about what ranking = what revenue are based on self-selected reporting from himself and other people he knows?
Just asking.
Joe Nobody Yeah, delay them from ending the show. Make it go on forever. And ever. AND EVEERRRR……
40,000 people hit that site in the last 30 hours.
That’s me. Hi.
Data Guy Amazing site!
Data Guy Didn’t load for me the first time I tried the url, haha.
Hahaha. Zero. Because I’m anonymous 😉
Data Guy You look familiar…
BatmanErica xgranvilleCarl Sinclair Le gasp! That could add up quickly!
I said zero testicles.
I skyped you, Hugh 🙂
See you all tomorrow night at 9PM EST with Darren Wearmouth to talk about book launch strategies.
Trish just scored! Woo hoo.
xgranville BatmanErica Carl Sinclair yeah. Good think I’ve been called in to do a few weeks of cover at work soon. Maybe I can afford it after that. Will also get some recommendations for translators on Friday when I go in.
ok, this is embarassing. how do i log in?
Taking bets on who data guy is…
Data Guy I have sent you an invitation via your gmail account.
Hi All
David Anson Howdy sir!
David Anson Hi, David! *waves*
PatrickStemp Well he shows up when I leave….
Woo I’m lagging.
Carl is leaving and Data Guy is coming in? Is this a clark kent/superman thing?
BatmanErica xgranvilleCarl Sinclair Best of luck!
David Anson Greetings, brother!
JadaMarne I believe he answered that question earlier in the show… But there are a few refrences online to find out how many books per day a person has to sell to make a certain rank, and several are very reputable.
BatmanErica It’s making me dizzy.
Carl Sinclair PatrickStemp Ah ha! With glasses off and hair combed to the other side. Interesting…tricky!
PatrickStemp It’s Polkaroo.
billdowis It’s not like I’m a spy in real life or anything with a software engineering background….
xgranville hope it’s not an issue for the after party, cause I want in on that!
BatmanErica oh wait… I am…
BatmanErica xgranville Yeah, hopefully that’s still on for tonight!
Thank you for saying that, Hugh! About encouraging those who are on the fence. There are so many talented writers just like that and we can tip the balance by encouraging them to put their work out there. It can make such a huge difference.
Data Guy Hey Data Guy, THANK YOU for all of your hard work on this! You tipped the publishing world on its ear. Huzzah 🙂
this is really meta
I’m tripping out, maaan!
BuddyGott Hi ya B
uddy
What are Hugh’s thoughts on cross-genre publishing under a single pen name versus staying in one genre?
Thanks Hugh!
Nothing will discourage people that suck that are tone deaf to their own suckiness to NOT publish. But the negativity can totally discourage the people that should be publishing (but have enough self reflection to feel insecure about) and keep them from going foward.
Thanks Hugh!!!!
Thanks Hugh. Great info. Great show. You write great books. Great Night!
Thank you SPRT for awesome show
melissadonovan Sorry Melissa, didn’t see that before he left.
Shay Barratt Thanks for watching. I’m glad you came.
Who is this guy? The Phantom of the Roundtable?
That voice…Jane is…Tucker Max!
I gotta go do some of that writing thing…. *waves goodbye* See you all later!!!
BrennaAubrey G’night!
crissymoss But those are also self-reported, and there are too few of them for them to be statistical relevant. Plus, they admit that Amazon’s algorithms appear to change at various intervals and thus the correlation of sales rank to revenue also changes.
BrennaAubrey Always a pleasure. Have a good night! =)
BrennaAubrey Write like the wind! 😀
xgranville His name is Jane, and he has only one ball, other then that I just know he’s a data Guru.
I’m lost, what’s going on?
BatmanErica Sounds like smoke and mirrors to me.
xgranville what does smoke and mirrors sound like?
BatmanErica Hugh left, so we are talking to Jane, the guy who actually put together the spider to gather the data.
BatmanErica xgranville Trickery and mischief. Hard to explain the sound.
crissymoss BatmanErica He is the Spider Master.
BatmanErica xgranville *makes a smoke and mirrors sound* <— Just like that.
shroudbetween BatmanEricaxgranville QUIET! SCOTT! DID YOU JUST HEAR THAT?!
shroudbetween BatmanErica xgranville okay I’ve got at least a 2 minute lag on the podcast and comments.
BatmanErica shroudbetweenxgranville Think of it like time travel. The Doctor will save you.
Doctor Sleep was on pre-order for months at #1 in Horror.
xgranville BatmanEricashroudbetweenWHO?
xgranville BatmanErica shroudbetween which one? I hope it’s 10 😀
The Line by Jake Horn was #3 in the whole Amazon store on pre-order.
BatmanErica xgranvilleshroudbetween I wouldn’t argue which gave me the lift haha. It’d be worth the trip.
BatmanErica xgranville shroudbetween Ugh. 9 was the best, period, hands down, done and done. 10 just apologized a lot. *puffin*
shroudbetween BatmanEricaxgranville Yeah, but 5 was so cool. He played cricket, man. Time Lord Cricket.
shroudbetween Data GuyThey do look familiar, I just can’t place the face.
xgranville BatmanErica shroudbetween the new comments indicate you’ve replied, but I’m not seeing the full comment come up on the site >.<
My video was five minutes behind and comments were lagging. I refreshed everything and switched to YouTube for the video — in case anyone else is having similar problems.
Liam Kingman shroudbetweenData GuyHis name is Robert Paulson
Liam Kingman shroudbetween Data Guy Right?!
xgranville shroudbetween BatmanErica Davison was my fave classic Who doctor.
xgranville Liam Kingman shroudbetween Data Guy Obviously his name is Paul Robson, then, if Xavier is talking…
melissadonovan I am
Almost 400 comments now. It’s lagging like its 1998 up in here. Dial up, yo.
BatmanErica xgranvilleshroudbetween The celery sealed the deal for me. But yeah, I’m torn between 9 and 10. I think 9 could have been better if he was given more time, but Tennant had enough time for him to dominate.
xgranville Correction, 401. Well, 402 now.
melissadonovan I did too. Seems to have helped a bit.
shroudbetween xgranville We gonna shoot for 500? Let’s destroy this site.
xgranville Give it 5 minutes, it will get to 400+
crissymoss xgranvilleAlready there.
xgranville crissymossThat was sooooo like 3 posts ago.
xgranville shroudbetween Some men just want to watch the world burn.
xgranville BatmanErica shroudbetween I was saddened when 9 left, I’d only just came around to liking him. But he signed only a one year contract and didn’t want to be typecast. Because of him we got more Who. 10 I think should have left sooner, but I don’t know if that was cause of the writing or what. He just seemed to get really annoying the longer he was there. 11 I’ve not liked much. Too much silly. Looking forward to Capaldi 😀
shroudbetween xgranvilleHotdogs taste best when roasted over a burning metropolis.
xgranville shroudbetween ooh I’ll bring the marshmallows!
BatmanErica xgranvilleshroudbetween I feel the SAME WAY!
xgranville BatmanErica shroudbetween OMG! Are you also sick of Moffatt?
BatmanErica xgranvilleshroudbetween Yeah, I trust the guy, but I feel that his little Moffattverse needs to stop. I hope with Capaldi will come a fresh breath of air.
xgranville BatmanErica shroudbetween Capaldi will bring with him a new show. That seems to be the way of it. Each Doctor changes the show – new personality.
Also, there’s this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQfvLpfXe2U
After years of engineering and dedicated software analysis…we have finally been able to create….a Cyber-Spider.
xgranville BatmanErica shroudbetween I think he’s good at one off eps like Blink, etc. I don’t think he’s good at the wider picture though.
shroudbetween xgranville BatmanErica Seen that one already, quite like Nerdist. Do you follow any of their podcasts? They have one specifically for writers (more screenwriters).
BatmanErica xgranville shroudbetween I like the guy, and a lot of the best episodes of the new Doctor Who have been written by the Grand Moff, but yeah, for a longer tale, I just don’t know..
BatmanErica xgranvilleshroudbetween That’s true. I’ve seen Blink too many times to love it anymore haha. The finales of each Smith season were so lackluster in comparison to the Tennant era.
BatmanErica shroudbetweenxgranville The Nerdist one is pretty cool. It’s good to hear from industry writers. It’s a tough gig.
BatmanErica shroudbetween xgranville Did, but I’ve kind of dropped off the podcast ring for awhile (this show being the only exception). Don’t really remember it, to be honest… listened awhile ago. Do you recommend it?
shroudbetween BatmanEricaxgranvilleFor select episodes, yep.
xgranvilleCyber-Spider… Cyber-Spider… Friendly world wide web… Cyber-Spider. It sounds a lot cooler if you read it with the Spider-man theme in your head. Go ahead try it again… Told you.
shroudbetween BatmanErica xgranville I don’t follow the writing one, but I pick and choose from their main podcast. Only interested in guests that take my fancy 🙂
Stop keeping me awake!
shroudbetween BatmanErica xgranville I didn’t enjoy the second part of the last season. Found it flat.
Goodnight everyone! Awesome talk.
Great show tonight you guys. See you all here again tomorrow night 🙂
PatrickStemp Night
Well, I’ve never been so offended 🙂
BatmanErica shroudbetween xgranville Used to listen to the Nerdist ALL THE TIME. They’re awesome.
BatmanErica You should find me on G+! You’re fun to chat with.
xgranville HEY JERK! I messaged you on Hangouts.
BatmanErica shroudbetweenxgranville I do the same with both haha. I have a podcast addiction.
shroudbetween thanks, you too 😀
Wait, no after party?
shroudbetween BatmanEricaxgranvilleI HAVEN’T CHECKED MY G+, SCOTT!
BatmanErica Yeah, what is this?
xgranville shroudbetween BatmanErica CHECK YOUR G+, XGRAN!
shroudbetween xgranville BatmanErica Okay I’m new to the G+ how do I add you guys?
xgranville BatmanErica In Soviet Russia, party is after YOU!
xgranville BatmanErica What time is tomorrow’s show, maybe we can hang then?
BatmanErica shroudbetween xgranville I’m Scott Richards on G+, cartoon pic of kids talking, and characters above their heads. Just click add, then check the box you want to add the person to. Simple as that.
BatmanErica xgranville Thursday’s show is usually 7pm PST.
shroudbetween BatmanEricaxgranville I’m boycotting this. Where’s +Buddy Gott?
crissymoss melissadonovan It’s okay. My video was lagging so I probably posted the question after he was gone.
I vote after party. Any takers?
shroudbetween you have been added as a friend. I find your humour regarding children amusing :p
xgranville me!
Liam Kingman xgranvilleI knew what you were doing the second time I read Cyber Spider.
xgranville I thought this was the after party.
shroudbetween BatmanErica xgranville so a half hour ago, but tomorrow?
BatmanErica xgranvilleAdd me to G+. Xavier Granville.
Liam Kingman xgranvilleGood point, Liam!
GREAT SHOW!!!!
xgranville added
BatmanErica Yeah. =P
xgranville All the guys from the podcast decided to go write…
Only 460 comments? Pfft. Go for 1000!
BatmanErica I think they figured we were on for two hours, we needed a break.
xgranville now what?
BatmanErica xgranville after party tomorrow. Show starts at 10PM EST
thedavidwwright BatmanErica xgranville awww Dave, I can’t make it. I’ll be in the city partaking in free cake 🙁
crissymoss BatmanEricaSo is the break over yet? =)
BatmanErica xgranville Well if noone is going to set it up, I will.
xgranville sweet. I haven’t podcasted in a few weeks 🙂
TarynMarkele Thanks. I’m glad you enjoyed the show.
BatmanErica thedavidwwrightxgranville Yeah sorry everyone. We’ll hold the after party tomorrow night. Too much work still to do tonight for everyone. 🙂
JadaMarne crissymossThere are actually quite a few sales to rank charts out there, as well as lots of threads on kboards with sales to rank data. So yes, while these are self-reported, because amazon doesn’t report this info, there are so many people reporting and so many people verifying their sales to rank against each other it’s really hard to cry foul on this data.
And yes, the volume of the store can cause a 10-20% shift on either side of the estimated sales, but that really doesn’t change the snap shot of the store we got during the data mining period Hugh’s report illustrated. A rank of 200 is still selling more books than a rank of 300 regardless of that day’s volume. The over all look at the sales data would remain constant, and you can still estimate sales within a twenty percent error ratio.
Data Guy Yes, a huge thank you to Data guy for his work on this spider. The possibilities are incredible.
BatmanErica Mine is selling for 4.99 EUR. Which is equaling around 1.35 American dollar right now. And it’s selling really well. I’ve seen the self pub stuff from .99 all the way up to 5.99. Alot depends on genre. Romance is big, so are thrillers/suspense.
BatmanErica xgranvilleCarl SinclairCheck out our Theresa Regan episode. She lists the translating service she used. It cost her 7K to translate her 80K book, but she made the translation costs back in her first WEEK of sales.
Trish McCallan thanks I’ll check it out 🙂
crissymoss billdowisThey WERE charging $300, to Phil’s credit, after our show last week Phil agreed to drop that price to $20. It’s in the comments from the show.
Darren Wearmouth jlwardYeah, Amazon is covered in his report. They have 4% of the 7000 books mined, but that 4% made 15% of the profit. He said that was four times higher than either Indie or big six. And guess what? That doesn’t include…..you guessed it their Pre-orders. lol
crissymossTrish McCallan Self-reported is still self-reported. There is inherent bias, which is why Howey laughed at the DBW/Writers Digest survey (which also has “so many people” reporting). Yet he is relying on the same methodology. That’s my point.
In market research, a margin of error of 20% is HUGE and would get the report thrown out as useless. I would be fired if I used data with that amount of variance to make a business decision. My jaw dropped when “Jane” admitted to that number.
A one day crawl of Amazon’s sales database with self-reported income as the basis for making assumptions about authors earnings is interesting, yes, but statistically it’s not going to stand up as proof of anything EXCEPT that one day snapshot. And I’m far from the only person who noticed that, judging by various blogs. Anyone who’s taken Stats 101 would know the same thing. (And where was the regression analysis? What’s the standard deviation? What method was used to control the familywise error rate?)
And in the end, both Howey’s data and Writers Digest/DBW data say pretty much the same thing. So if one survey is inherently flawed and useless, as was suggested during the Roundtable, what does that say about the other set of data points?
There is a huge need for data. This is a great start. But it’s only a start. I’d love to see an actual statistician, backed up with data derived from a group controlled for bias, conduct a market-wide survey.
Shay Barratt I’d agree with this prediction. I’m seeing it already happening with the romance community. I am also seeing alot of the romance hybrid authors who are doing well self-publishing dropping their legacy contracts.
Trish McCallan crissymoss I said there are too few to be statistically relevant. This report looked at nearly 7000 titles. Even taking into account authors who had multiple books on the list, there are maybe, what? 200 authors who have self-reported (being generous)? And of those 200, how many reports are still relevant considering that Amazon’s ranking to sales correlation is known to change and shift over time?
And self-reported is still self-reported. There is an inherent bias in self-reported data. That’s why Howey tore into the DBW/Writers Digest survey. Yet he is using the exact same self-reporting methodology. That’s my point. (And since the DBW/Writers Digest survey and Howey’s data reach the basic same conclusions, yet one is supposedly deeply flawed while the other isn’t, what does that say about both sets of data points?)
A 20% margin of error is huge in market research. I would be fired if I used data with that much variance to make a business decision. My jaw dropped when “Jane” admitted it.
(And speaking of Howey’s data and their conclusions: where’s the regression analysis? What’s the standard deviation? How did they control for familywise error rates?!)
I think it’s great that there is an attempt to datamine Amazon (and I wonder what steps Amazon will take to counteract this. They like having a secret sauce). I’m all for greater transparency in publishing.
But I would love to see an actual statistician, with data inputs controlled for bias, do a market wide survey.
Trish McCallan: Thanks again for digging into the pre-order question, Trish.
I took a look at the 50,000-book dataset to check. Turns out the pre-order-flagging code wasn’t active on that run. (I added it later).
For the next run, I’ll double check that we’re identifying pre-orders properly, and then we’ll explore what it tells us.
Data Guy Trish McCallan Thanks for all of your information and showing up Data Guy. Really cool of you.
PatrickStemp This wasn’t quite our record. I’m sure in the coming days it might get up there though. Thanks for watching.
TarynMarkele Thanks Taryn. I hope you’ll come watch us again soon!
BatmanErica thedavidwwright xgranville I do feel sad. I don’t hear enough of my fellow kiwi accents these days, between podcasting with American’s and living in Australia. I hope you’ll join us some time Erica!
xgranville I’m writing that book.
Liam Kingman jlward Thanks!
Carl Sinclair BatmanEricathedavidwwrightxgranville it’ll be at a month and a half before I can. Today and next week I’m going into the city for free cake (two people leaving my sometimes workplace) and the following week I’ll be at work for up to a month. My timing is excellent–not. But I’ve got to earn some money if I want to even think about paying for German translations.
Data Guy Trish McCallanThank you! Love what you guys reported with the print episode today. 🙂
shroudbetween xgranvilleBatmanEricaIt’s absolutely amazing how often Dr. Who shows up in the shows comments. I think he’s our stalker.
JadaMarne crissymossTrish McCallanIn regards to rank to sales, the data is gathered by hundreds of people, in one thread started at multiple times through the year. The samples are taken over the course of a day or two, with hundreds of people- many with multiple books across every strata of the store responding, and hundreds of other people comparing the results posted to their own. So while we might not have a number for every single rank in the store, we do get very strong sales data covering the store ranking. And from my experience with my books and my friends book, these charts are very close.
But yes, these are self-reported numbers, so feel free to reject the possibility that you can actually tell a book’s sales by it’s rank just because non-statistician are collecting the data–like every single agent or traditional editor has done before you.
Now I don’t claim to be a statistician, but I am a very logical person and driven by common sense. And even taking the rank to sales chart off the table, Hugh data is actually relevant, unlike the writers digest survey, Yes, Hugh admitted that his data is self-selected. Yes, he admitted that he chose the top selling books in the mystery/thriller/suspense, sci-f/fantasy and romance genres. But that’s where the self selecting stops. This data mining is based on rank, which is based on sales. So even if you are uncomfortable admitting that the sales to rank charts can estimate sales accurately, you have to admit that a book with a lower rank is selling better than a book with a higher rank. And his program mines this information. It gives us snap shot of which categories are making what percentage of sales. And that’s what every one is looking for, an idea of how Indies, small press, Amazon and traditional houses fair against eachother. Yes this is ONLY Amazon. Everyone realizes that. Yes this is just a one day snap shot. But it’s a start. You string enough snap shots together and maybe we can start putting together a picture. And he isn’t planning on stopping the data mining so we will be adding to our knowledge. This is by far the best thing that anyone has come up with to date and I say Kudo to Hugh and his Data guy for this.
And yes, he chose the top tier, the outliners to report on first, which as an author and someone doing this for a living is of the utmost relevance to me. Because I need to know how the various categories fair against each other to make my business decisions. I need to see a snap shot into how well professional authors from the various categories are doing. I would much rather focus on the professional authors and their books then the rank Amateurs, 2/3 of which haven’t even finished a book, like the The WD/DBW survey focused on.
Everyone agrees that a very, very small percentage of authors make money from any of the categories. Hugh has never said otherwise. What is relevant to the people asking questions (or at least the authors) is among the people who are making money- how many are indie, how many traditional, how many with Amazon Publishing or small presses?
But even more so he made his information and data available to everyone to download and play with, and analyze. That’s a hell of a lot more than anyone else has EVER done.
Is it possible to include an mp3 in the podcast posts so people can just listen to the episodes instead of watching on youtube? I’m very interested in listening to this podcast but I only have time during my commute. Thanks!
miked23 Hi Mike. Until very recently we mainly covered indie news stories. We didn’t have an audio feed only because the shows were very situational and not very useful for people listening back weeks later, certainly not years later. Now we are essentially doing interviews every week that is changing. We are rebuilding the site and there will be an audio stream coming. We will also go back and pull the audio of all of our recent interviews. Sadly, right now there isn’t an option. We need to increase a bunch of audio qualities and other stuff first. It will be coming soon though. If you subscribe to our YouTube channel there will be updates. Thanks for asking.
Carl Sinclair miked23 You can extract the audio from the youtube videos using ffmpeg
http://www.catonmat.net/blog/how-to-extract-audio-tracks-from-youtube-videos/
shaun_ Carl Sinclair miked23 Hi Shaun. Getting our audio stream isn’t the issue. The quality if we are going to syndicate to iTunes is. We are fine for YouTube but the expectations may be higher. Plus then there is hosting. We know how to do it and could have. I’m working on a solution and we may be set up in the next couple of weeks. I’ve made progress on this today.
The audio is now available for this show in the show notes above. It is for download directly. The iTunes and RSS feeds will be up shortly.
http://ec.libsyn.com/p/7/e/2/7e231c04e9cec825/SPRT_032.mp3?d13a76d516d9dec20c3d276ce028ed5089ab1ce3dae902ea1d01c1853ed6c059aa0e&c_id=6864762